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Old 12-03-2013, 01:53 AM   #1
dark acacia
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Hostile Role Players

Have you ever encountered someone ICly who appears to be unreasonably offensive towards your or other players' characters?

I don't mean legitimate situations like when someone is playing a paladin and you're caught in the act of creating undead creatures and you have to pay the IC consequences, or if you pick a fight and lose role played PvP. I don't mean when you play on a one-life-only game and your rival kills you fair and square. I'm talking about when someone's comments are deliberately intended to be offensive and demeaning to the point of seeking to drive a person out of the group and possibly away from the game.

It's something which I think is difficult to describe and implicate in an enforced role play setting, because any third party can easily tell you that it's IC so it's fair game, and truly the hostile role player will be more than pleased to confirm that for you and tell you that you're taking IC actions way too seriously.

The best example I can think of is when someone uses IC communication to insult and offend you over something that isn't borne from a role play situation, but rather from combat, and particularly where the outcome relies on the game playing skills of the players and on the merciless rolls of the dice. If you're in a party with someone who repeatedly insults and degrades your character every time your spell fails or you nearly die or you actually do die, or (Dentin forbid) the party is wiped out and you get blamed by the hostile person for it, is there a point where this becomes excessive?

People do have feelings, and while it is neighboring on ridiculous if someone expects to play a total Mary Sue (or Marty Stu) who is absolutely gorgeous and talented and good at everything and then gets in a huff because someone took them down a few pegs, I think there are some things which should still be off-limits for role play insults. Anything hinging on combat and player skill only should probably be left out of someone's cross hairs. What good is it to the party if one member continually insults another member throughout, and then hides behind the enforced role play rules?
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Old 12-03-2013, 01:54 PM   #2
dentin
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Re: Hostile Role Players

At some point, I would think that IC retalliation should kick in - challenge the jerk to a duel, petition the group to throw out the offensive party, etc. If someone tells you to take it less seriously, claim that you think it's funny OOC, but IC your character is -mad- and there will be consequences.

All this said, there's going to be some truly pathological harassers which require administrative action to handle. It should always be an option for a god to step in and do something - whether OOC player banning for harassment, or just an IC god stomping on the enemy of a follower. This sounds like a slippery slope, but it's much less slippery than you'd think - the ones that are a problem will persistently be a problem. You'll have plenty of evidence. All that's required is the intestinal fortitude to actually take care of the problem.

In the past, I've let this sort of thing go on far too long hoping that it would either go away, that code could take care of it, or that the players would work it out. In the end, the game suffered far more for my tolerance than it should have; the correct action would have been to take care of the problem immediately. I know better now.

-dentin

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Old 12-04-2013, 01:11 PM   #3
Delerak
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Re: Hostile Role Players

Ah the fundamental differences between RPIs and other muds. *sigh*
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Old 12-04-2013, 09:41 PM   #4
buuwl
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Re: Hostile Role Players

Dragonrealms has a lot of good anti harassment policies in place that really squelch griefing and this type of stuff
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Old 03-30-2016, 07:44 PM   #5
JustAnotherMage
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Re: Hostile Role Players

Sure Buuwl maybe in 2013. Now the bullies rule that game, especially your ig wife.
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Old 03-31-2016, 08:54 AM   #6
WarHound
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Re: Hostile Role Players

Shots fired!
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Old 04-01-2016, 06:41 PM   #7
shevegen
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Re: Hostile Role Players

> Have you ever encountered someone ICly who appears to be unreasonably
> offensive towards your or other players' characters?

This is problematic because either it is proper roleplay, or it is
OOC leaking through.

I have seen everything, from the good to the bad. Simply ignore the
bad and focus on the good (as far as other players are concerned).

> I'm talking about when someone's comments are deliberately intended
> to be offensive and demeaning to the point of seeking to drive a
> person out of the group and possibly away from the game.

How can anything that happens IC, in a game where roleplaying is
mandatory, be interpreted as an OOC comment per se?

That you can drive off others with aggro-play is understandable. It
did not happen to me and I don't think I did play in a way to end
the time of someone else per se either. But it has happened to
others, where they no longer had any fun being bullied out and
away. So I can understand this part.

However had, I don't think that everyone who did so, had the clear
OOC goal of harming the MUD. I am not saying that this does not
happen on purpose sometimes as well, mind you. But most or all
of the examples I can think of, there was almost always some
history, a build up to conflict.

> It's something which I think is difficult to describe and
> implicate in an enforced role play setting, because any
> third party can easily tell you that it's IC so it's fair
> game, and truly the hostile role player will be more than
> pleased to confirm that for you and tell you that you're
> taking IC actions way too seriously.

Hah - you remind me of someone who actually was bullied out.

I can not judge on my own on this particular situation (and
I assume that it was not you either anyway), since I also
retired from the last MUD I was playing in 2013 after
a temporary wizard nerfed 'who' before abandoning the game
as well.

But from the situation described, yes, that happens.

There is indeed no easy way to go and interfere because
everyone will vehemently say that he is in the right (and
everything is "proper IC play", so you can not easily
prove that the play happened in a way to aggravate and
pester someone else out of the game).

In particular there were situations where they pestered
other players out of the game, then also abandoned the
game, thus hurting the game twice.

It's a very unfortunate situation. I think the best is
to try to have the game work in such a way that aggro-play
is not able to drive other players out of the game. But
this may also require intervention and a purge of players
who do so. Which requires an active admin. For a game that
is, save for the top 10 on the mud ranks perhaps, run and
maintained by volunteers in their spare time.

Social pressure may also work to some extent; most players
I know hate to be called to ruin a game.

My take was to always treat everything that happens ICly,
without any exception (provided that it was roleplay; if
it was roleplay, even if I would not like it, I still would
treat it ICly and try to solve it fitting to my characters
at hand. But I do have to admit that this can understandably
be difficult to want to solve, if the other character or
player wants to see you retire from a game. It did not happen
to me in that way, but I know that it happened to others.
People are different, what works for someone, may not work
for someone else.).

> The best example I can think of is when someone uses IC communication
> to insult and offend you over something that isn't borne from a
> role play situation, but rather from combat

Wait a moment. Why is not combat not a part of role play?

As for IC insults, well. There are potty mouths in reallife too.

If you can avoid other characters your character does not get
along with then that is fine.

> and particularly where the outcome relies on the game playing
> skills of the players and on the merciless rolls of the dice.

Well, in PvP that often is the case. The game engine becomes
the ultimate DM.

> If you're in a party with someone who repeatedly insults and
> degrades your character every time your spell fails or you
> nearly die or you actually do die, or (Dentin forbid) the
> party is wiped out and you get blamed by the hostile person
> for it, is there a point where this becomes excessive?

I don't think I have played in such a game. Sounds pretty awful
to me and boring to begin with.

But it is still IC right? So if someone else keeps on pestering
your character, why would you want to be in the same party
anyway? Or respectively your character.

> People do have feelings, and while it is neighboring on ridiculous
> if someone expects to play a total Mary Sue (or Marty Stu) who
> is absolutely gorgeous and talented and good at everything and
> then gets in a huff because someone took them down a few pegs,
> I think there are some things which should still be off-limits
> for role play insults. Anything hinging on combat and player
> skill only should probably be left out of someone's cross hairs.
> What good is it to the party if one member continually insults
> another member throughout, and then hides behind the enforced
> role play rules?

I am not sure I understand it or what you mean with "rules".

IC insults are not forbidden or? Or do you have a roleplace police
active?

And in this case, it seems to be trivial - don't get to hang out
with characters your character does not like (or you don't enjoy
playing with)?
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Old 04-05-2016, 09:27 PM   #8
JustAnotherMage
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Re: Hostile Role Players

Seriously ?
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Old 04-09-2016, 04:49 PM   #9
shevegen
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Re: Hostile Role Players

Seriously what?

Use more than one word man.
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